Narrative Control - Episode 41
Narrative Control
Hi and welcome back to Narrative Control. This episode I yoinked an
excerpt from Things We Think About Games. “Take Your Turn
Already”Hosts: Sean Nittner and Eric Fattig Length: 25:08 [00:26]
Intro to the Show and to Eric Fattig [00:44] Open Design Podcast
Promo [01:18] Welcome 2010 and some bad audio (it gets better soon)
[01:35] I love introducing my co-hosts wrong. Eric Fattig takes the
sta...
read more
Hi and welcome back to Narrative Control. This episode I yoinked an
excerpt from Things We Think About Games. “Take Your Turn
Already”Hosts: Sean Nittner and Eric Fattig Length: 25:08 [00:26]
Intro to the Show and to Eric Fattig [00:44] Open Design Podcast
Promo [01:18] Welcome 2010 and some bad audio (it gets better soon)
[01:35] I love introducing my co-hosts wrong. Eric Fattig takes the
stage. [02:10] “Take Your Turn Already” – From Things We
Think About Games by Will Hindmarch and Jeff Tidball. Also, the
audio improves here. [02:51] Reading time with Sean [03:24] Classic
board game example: Placing settlements in Settlers of Catan
[04:57] How this applies to role-playing games. Mechanical
stumbling blocks in crunchy games. [05:22] This still happens in
rules-light games as players hesitate over choices about what to do
regarding their character and the plot. [05:37] Sean’s loathes
planning sessions. John Wick’s “Dirty Dungeon” from
Wilderness of Mirrors. [06:22] Our L5R game runs in a round robin
style of play so we definitely see it when someone holds up the
game because they can’t decide what to do. [07:26] All you need
to know is “Be Cool” [08:00] Player agency. How does it apply
here? We all want to do something cool, which can cause us to stall
when we can’t think of something cool to do. [09:06] How do board
games address “bad decisions”? Catch up mechanics, immediate
penalization that corrects behavior, and victory point mechanics
that rate performance after the fact. [10:52] A fear players have
that a bad decision will affect them in ways they don’t want for
an extended period time. [11:55] Many games mechanically are
forgiving. You can lose a few hit points and keep smacking firbolgs
in the face. [12:54] Story elements however can be less forgiving.
There are things the GM can do to encourage people to take chances.
[13:40] Lead by example. Create NPCs that have made mistakes and
survived and become more interesting because of it. Make flawed
characters the norm. [17:20] Take things out of game. Let the
players know that you will give them a warning if they are about to
do something that could make the game un-fun. [18:42] As an
extension of this, negotiate stakes so the players know what will
happen before the dice are rolled. [19:54] The players can also
help. If they are rooting for you, you feel a lot safer in taking
risks. [21:50] It’s fun to be spontaneous. It’s not like our
characters have forever to decide what to do. [22:47] In World of
Warcraft, My #2 key is bound to Charge just for Arthas. Post
Feedback Here: Comments
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Mon January 25 2010
Hi and welcome back to Narrative Control. This episode I yoinked an
excerpt from Things We Think About Games. “Take Your Turn
Already”Hosts: Sean ...
read more
Hi and welcome back to Narrative Control. This episode I yoinked an
excerpt from Things We Think About Games. “Take Your Turn
Already”Hosts: Sean Nittner and Eric Fattig Length: 25:08 [00:26]
Intro to the Show and to Eric Fattig [00:44] Open Design Podcast
Promo [01:18] Welcome 2010 and some bad audio (it gets better soon)
[01:35] I love introducing my co-hosts wrong. Eric Fattig takes the
sta...
read more
Hi and welcome back to Narrative Control. This episode I yoinked an
excerpt from Things We Think About Games. “Take Your Turn
Already”Hosts: Sean Nittner and Eric Fattig Length: 25:08 [00:26]
Intro to the Show and to Eric Fattig [00:44] Open Design Podcast
Promo [01:18] Welcome 2010 and some bad audio (it gets better soon)
[01:35] I love introducing my co-hosts wrong. Eric Fattig takes the
stage. [02:10] “Take Your Turn Already” – From Things We
Think About Games by Will Hindmarch and Jeff Tidball. Also, the
audio improves here. [02:51] Reading time with Sean [03:24] Classic
board game example: Placing settlements in Settlers of Catan
[04:57] How this applies to role-playing games. Mechanical
stumbling blocks in crunchy games. [05:22] This still happens in
rules-light games as players hesitate over choices about what to do
regarding their character and the plot. [05:37] Sean’s loathes
planning sessions. John Wick’s “Dirty Dungeon” from
Wilderness of Mirrors. [06:22] Our L5R game runs in a round robin
style of play so we definitely see it when someone holds up the
game because they can’t decide what to do. [07:26] All you need
to know is “Be Cool” [08:00] Player agency. How does it apply
here? We all want to do something cool, which can cause us to stall
when we can’t think of something cool to do. [09:06] How do board
games address “bad decisions”? Catch up mechanics, immediate
penalization that corrects behavior, and victory point mechanics
that rate performance after the fact. [10:52] A fear players have
that a bad decision will affect them in ways they don’t want for
an extended period time. [11:55] Many games mechanically are
forgiving. You can lose a few hit points and keep smacking firbolgs
in the face. [12:54] Story elements however can be less forgiving.
There are things the GM can do to encourage people to take chances.
[13:40] Lead by example. Create NPCs that have made mistakes and
survived and become more interesting because of it. Make flawed
characters the norm. [17:20] Take things out of game. Let the
players know that you will give them a warning if they are about to
do something that could make the game un-fun. [18:42] As an
extension of this, negotiate stakes so the players know what will
happen before the dice are rolled. [19:54] The players can also
help. If they are rooting for you, you feel a lot safer in taking
risks. [21:50] It’s fun to be spontaneous. It’s not like our
characters have forever to decide what to do. [22:47] In World of
Warcraft, My #2 key is bound to Charge just for Arthas. Post
Feedback Here: Comments
read less
Sun November 22 2009
This episode Erik Woodbury and I are talking about character death
and how that affects the players in the game and the story
ramifications. This was ...
read more
This episode Erik Woodbury and I are talking about character death
and how that affects the players in the game and the story
ramifications. This was inspired by an article from Judd Karlman on
the Burning Wheel forums.Hosts: Sean Nittner and Erik
WoodburyLength: 27:15Show Notes[00:27] Intro to the Show. My
celebration of holiday cheer. Our thoughts on how to make Character
death more satisfying i...
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This episode Erik Woodbury and I are talking about character death
and how that affects the players in the game and the story
ramifications. This was inspired by an article from Judd Karlman on
the Burning Wheel forums.Hosts: Sean Nittner and Erik
WoodburyLength: 27:15Show Notes[00:27] Intro to the Show. My
celebration of holiday cheer. Our thoughts on how to make Character
death more satisfying in game.[01:44] Whatâs up Justin? I mean an
intro to Erik Woodbury.[02:38] Juddâs post. A discussion took
place on both his LiveJournal here:
http://judd-sonofbert.livejournal.com/462520.html and the Burning
Wheel forum thread here:
http://www.burningwheel.org/forum/showthread.php?p=76980#post76980[03:00]
An excerpt from Juddâs post.[03:55] Putting Erik on the spot.
Characters of his that have died.[04:44] What character death means
to Sean? The end of player agency in the story.[05:11] Agency is
the ultimate currency in any RPG. Doing stuff is what makes it
fun.[05:35] Erik recalls his characterâs âdeathâ[07:00] An
unfinished story is incredibly frustrating[07:11] The âcrapâ
death â a meaningless, unexpected, and one that doesnât advance
the story.[07:50] What about games where death isnât permanent?
Resurrection, Cloning, etc. Satisfying in games that address it in
the fiction. In other games though, Death becomes cheap. [09:45]
Weâre not advocating pulling punches though. Death is a powerful
effect on the game.[10:01] The âcrapâ death though leaves a
player feeling cheated. Roll or die situations are way to binary.
Worse the confrontation is meaningless.[10:40] Seanâs mini rant on
PCs that rush headlong into violence in games where death is very
setting appropriate.[12:33] For the death to be satisfying, itâs
got to be meaningful to the players. The âgoodâ death. My death
meant something. [13:10] A TPK minus one. Awesome Deaths where
everyone sacrificed themselves to make something happen that was
needed in the story. [14:50] Dying and feeling like you achieved
something that doesnât make you lose agency. Something changed
specifically BECAUSE your character died.[16:00] What to do after
death? Balancing a new character. Re-integrating with the existing
group.[17:57] Characters die and then sometimes players will keep
trying to tell their story. Gaming after death? OOTS
(http://www.giantitp.com/) does it, but does it work in an
RPG?[19:35] Find a way to wrap up the characterâs story. Allow for
player narration and story crafting. Man we like the word
âagency.â[21:04] Song of Ice and Fire books, the last three (of
four books) are all about a single characterâs death.[21:38] Total
Party Kills (TPK). This can be awesome, but most of the time it
means there has been a breakdown in communication.[24:02] A
mis-designed encounter on the GMs part. When challenging becomes
overwhelming. This is largely affected by system. [25:07] How does
character death vary in one-shot games vs. campaign games? Post
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Wed October 14 2009
This show Justin and I are talking about a method of giving players
the ability to do some more of the story crafting in traditional
games. Asking que...
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This show Justin and I are talking about a method of giving players
the ability to do some more of the story crafting in traditional
games. Asking questions as actions in game. Length: 22:49 Hosts:
Sean Nittner and Justin Evans Links: Virtual Play #34
(http://virtualplay.podbus.com/?p=66) Post Feedback Here: Comments
This show Justin and I are talking about a method of giving players
the ability to do some more of the story crafting in traditional
games. Asking questions as actions in game. Length: 22:49 Hosts:
Sean Nittner and Justin Evans Links: Virtual Play #34
(http://virtualplay.podbus.com/?p=66) Post Feedback Here: Comments
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Thu September 10 2009
Weâre talking about trust at the game table. How much do you need
trust your fellow players? Does the game youâre playing change how
much trust you ...
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Weâre talking about trust at the game table. How much do you need
trust your fellow players? Does the game youâre playing change how
much trust you need? What games address trust around the table?
Hosts: Sean Nittner and Justin Evans Length: 23:04 Show Notes
[00:28] Introduction to the show. Continuing a conversation from
Josh Renschâs blog gmwithadd.com[00:45] Woops. This was supposed
to be ep...
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Weâre talking about trust at the game table. How much do you need
trust your fellow players? Does the game youâre playing change how
much trust you need? What games address trust around the table?
Hosts: Sean Nittner and Justin Evans Length: 23:04 Show Notes
[00:28] Introduction to the show. Continuing a conversation from
Josh Renschâs blog gmwithadd.com[00:45] Woops. This was supposed
to be episode 35. [01:24] Sorry Josh, this impersonation was made
before we met. [01:37] Amorphous Blobcast Promo[02:26] Josh Rensch
is a cool dude. He sent me stuff.[03:00] Heâs continuing the
conversation on his blogâ and hey, so are we in Season 2.[03:56]
Joshâs conversation with Fear the Boot.[04:18] An excerpt from his
post. Done in my best âbadassâ voice.[05:18] A little present for
BG_Meg[06:12] My first impression of Trust â Cheating in the game.
It doesnât bother me.[06:54] It is more nuanced that just cheating
on dice rolls though.[07:20] John Wick talks about why we
shouldnât need rules to handle cheaters in games on his LJ.[08:06]
A situation where you canât control who you are gaming with: A
convention game.[08:36] Suspend expectations of the players until
youâve played with them for a while. Escalate your presence in the
game as you see your players commitment to the game.[09:32]
Cheating is just one issue of trust. What about players trusting
each other to all have the groups best interest in mind.[10:37] The
type of story youâre going to tell and how you have fun playing
may be very different between players.[11:11] Justin starts
faulting himself. Iâd edit it out but itâs so rare that he admits
fault, I had to make it public. Allowing one player to take fun
away from the other players.[12:35] What did Justin do? Players
admitting that they arenât having fun. Justinâs reaction. Taking
time out.[14:22] Iâve seen games where conflicts roll up from the
characters right to the players and people leave with hurt
feelings.[14:51] Seanâs experience feeling frustrated and tired at
the end of a game. My reactionâ this is not a therapy
session.[17:05] How do specific games handle this. Many games talk
about âin gameâ trust.[17:20] Paranoia puts it up front that your
characters are disposable, donât take it personally.[17:34] Any
time you need to collaborate more at the table, you need to trust
each other more.[17:45] Montsegur 1244 is a tragedy, which is an
extra effort to play and requires more trust to tell this
game.[18:32] Accidental plug or intentional pimp?[18:47] When I
trust another player, Iâm willing to be hopeful even in a tragedy.
I know weâre watching out for each other.[19:49] What sort of play
experience we all want is something to establish early on,
preferably before the game starts.[20:07] Polaris also requires a
lot of trust in the players around you. The ritual protects you to
some degree, but also allows the âmistakenâ to intentionally
deplete your character by offering undesirable twists. Post
Feedback Here: Comments
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Mon August 31 2009
This week Justin and I talked about Exploring the Premise, taking
time out of the game for exposition about the setting, the
characters and their plac...
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This week Justin and I talked about Exploring the Premise, taking
time out of the game for exposition about the setting, the
characters and their place in the story. This episode continues a
conversation we found on Rob Donoghue LiveJournal post of the same
name here: http://rob-donoghue.livejournal.com/328884.html Hosts:
Sean Nittner and Justin Evans Length: 26:45 Show Notes [00:28]
Intro to the ...
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This week Justin and I talked about Exploring the Premise, taking
time out of the game for exposition about the setting, the
characters and their place in the story. This episode continues a
conversation we found on Rob Donoghue LiveJournal post of the same
name here: http://rob-donoghue.livejournal.com/328884.html Hosts:
Sean Nittner and Justin Evans Length: 26:45 Show Notes [00:28]
Intro to the show â a response to Robâs LiveJournal entry.[00:55]
Definition of the Premise in a story.[01:18] Super Intelligent
Hamsters![01:41] Justin reads the first paragraph of Robâs
entry.[02:55] What we imagine Rob sounds like.[03:12] Seanâs
argument with a friend about exploring the premise vs. facing
conflicts.[08:55] Exploring the premise is there to give the
audience (the players in this case) a chance to learn about the
characters and settings and begin to care about them.[10:02] A
unique situation in a role-playing game. Each player is
contributing to the premise, which requires it to stay
flexible.[11:54] Another reading from the book of Rob.[12:25] Games
with nothing but conflict make you wonder what the conflicts are
about. [13:05] A recount of âThe Swordâ[13:48] A system that
leans toward constant conflicts: In a Wicked Age.
(http://www.lumpley.com/wicked.html)[15:50] An opposite end of the
spectrum: Gumshoe
(http://www.pelgranepress.com/gumshoe/index.html)[19:14] Somewhere
in the middle of that spectrum: Dungeons and Dragons 4E
(http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/welcome)[21:59] Another
method of weaving action and exploration in the extended skill
challenges in Spirit of the Century
(http://www.evilhat.com/home/sotc/)[23:00] Transitioning between
exploration and conflict scenes. Seanâs example, with Scalagrim
the Barbarian Prince of course. Post Feedback Here: Comments
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